Paige – Ponderosa Creative
Paige started Ponderosa Creative as a new mom, taking a break from the environmental field after being burnt out by academia during her master’s degree at Evergreen. In addition to running her business, she worked in the enviornmental field – specifically municipal stormwater.
She designs her Ponderosa Creative Thread Gloss with both the environment and quilters in mind – creating scents for quilters while designing a product that has a low impact on the environment. She also creates hand-sewn goods, and has a great sense of style.
Some quick details about Paige: scorpio, neurodivergent, mother, wife, enneagram 5w6 (investigator-loyalist), and in between meyers-briggs ENTP (visionary) and INTP (logician).
Show Notes:
Read all About Thread Gloss
Shop in the Ponderosa Creative shop
Get Ponderosa Creative Thread Gloss here (including the new Y2K scent)
Find Ponderosa Creative on Instgram
Check out all of Paige’s Quilt Patterns here
Listen to the Episode Here:
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Transcript of the Episode:
Carolina Moore:
I love notions and I’m guessing that you do too. Hey there friend. It’s Carolina Moore, your favorite sewing and quilting YouTuber and now podcaster here with another episode.
Hey there quilting friends. It’s Carolina Moore and I’m here for our last episode of this season one of I Love Notions. And I have a special guest today. This is Paige Anderson of Ponderosa Creative. And I’m going to let her tell you all about what she does. Welcome to the podcast, Paige.
Paige:
Hi. Thank you so much for having me, Carolina. For everyone listening, hi. I am Paige Anderson. I own and operate Ponderosa Creative, which I started in 2017. We are, myself and my team, so if you hear me say we it’s a couple of people now. But we are a needlework supply and quilty good company. And our bestseller which we’re going to be talking about a lot today, is Ponderosa thread gloss?
Carolina Moore:
Yes, it’s your thread gloss that is how I actually discovered you. But before we hop into that, I want to hear about your quilty origin story. What was the beginning of you and fabric?
Paige:
As far back as I can remember, fabric has been a part of my life. When I was growing up, I spent most of my time with my grandparents and especially my grandmother who was a major, major quilter. She actually passed away earlier this year, so I’m a little sad about that. She is my origin story, she was a quilter. She owned a kite store actually in the 90s. And-
Carolina Moore:
What’s a kite store?
Paige:
She made kites and brought in kites from other manufacturers, and this was on the Oregon coast where it’s windy and people just come there to fly kites. So the-
Carolina Moore:
So like the fancy dragon ones and all different designs and shapes or the box shaped ones or?
Paige:
I have no idea what they looked like. I don’t remember, that was 30 years ago when I was a little kid. But I remember one kite that she kept from after she stopped running a sewing based business is your typical diamond shaped kite. And it had a palm tree and a dinosaur and these really fluttery tales. And I had that for most of my childhood and I loved to take it to the coast or to the park and be like, “My grandma made this. My grandma teaches me how to sew.” So I spent so much of my childhood at her feet picking with her scraps, learning how to sew. And because sewing was so important to her, it was really important for her to teach me as much as she could about sewing with… Especially because home ec isn’t taught in schools anymore.
And her being a kid of the 50s was like, “Girl, you need to know how to sew. You need to know how to alter your own clothes. Do a basic quilt block, learn how to put these layers together, know how to embroider at bare minimum your clothes and pillow cases.” So I learned all that from her. And I was a really nerdy little kid, so I just spent time with my grandma and did crafts most of the time. So that’s where it started.
Carolina Moore:
That’s so much fun. Okay.
Paige:
It really was. I look back on it so fondly.
Carolina Moore:
So at some point you made the jump from being the kid who’s playing with scraps on grandma’s sewing floor to being the human who starts a quilty business.
Paige:
Yeah. So I kept crafting, kept doing sewing, quilting, embroidery, anything with fabric that I could really get my hands on for years and years. Set it down for a couple of years as an adolescent because I was just way too cool and I’d rather watch boys at the skate park than quilt, but that didn’t last. And I came back to quilting and embroidery, hand embroidery in a really big way when I was in college. I was at university and it’s so stressful to go to college, my gosh, never doing that again. But I needed an outlet again. So I started making stuff and I started making so many embroideries and quilted pouches that I needed to do something with them. And my family and friends were just like, “Please stop. We have too many. We love you, but that’s enough.” And so they were like, “Why don’t you give an Etsy shop or sell on eBay?” Because this was… Let me think where we’re at in the timeline, 2013.
So Etsy was just starting to become popular. So I signed up and I put a series of Kurt Vonnegut themed embroideries. And kind of alternatives to the live, laugh, love style like sassy embroideries up on Etsy and they sold. And that was enough encouragement while I was in college to be like, okay, maybe this degree that I’m pursuing, maybe a career in the sciences isn’t my only option. I have something else here and it brings me a lot of joy. So I just kept doing that on the side. Started doing a few craft markets here and there. And then flash forward to 2016, I was in grad school and I had moved cities and I was working on my master’s degree. And just for context, my degrees are in environmental studies. So just very stressful, very important but just you can’t have a degree like that in that sort of field with climate change happening and not have a super rewarding outlet.
And then I just started spending more and more of my time being creative. And then it became like I had a government job in stormwater education and that was fun and fulfilling. But then my Etsy store started to grow and grow to where it kind of was distracting me from my homework. So I knew it was going to be a really big part of my life. And then 2017 I had my daughter, I was out of work for a little bit and I started quilting again. And this time I knew, oh, wait a second, this is actually what I’m supposed to be doing. This is what I’m called to do. I love the environment but maybe a career and it isn’t for me. And I didn’t let that thought fully sink in until about six months ago when I went actual full-time with art and quit the environmental field.
But at the time in 2017, I was home with my daughter and we lived in this tiny, tiny 700 square foot, maybe 800 square foot craftsman house. So I rented out a room in a downtown art space above a bar in the little town I was living in during grad school and started quilting and started selling those quilted goods. And then I started writing quilt patterns because I was like, well, I really want to do something different than the quilts I’m seeing. And so I started doing that and people showed interest and I was like, I guess, yes, sure, let’s write quilt patterns. And did that for a couple of years until the birth of thread gloss which kind of changed everything, and that was in 2018.
Carolina Moore:
So what was the birth of thread gloss or what was even the gestation before the birth of thread gloss?
Paige:
Yeah, so at the time I was like, oh, this isn’t going to be a big deal. This isn’t going to change my life, change my career trajectory. But I was preparing to teach a series of hand embroidery workshops in Olympia, Washington where I live currently. And I was going to teach some simple tactile and flowers, and I have always used thread conditioner. And the one that I had been using since I was a child and my grandma was like, “This is the holy grail. You’re never using anything else.” That company had gone under and it was like the one in the little blue box, I can’t even remember what it’s called anymore but they went out of business. So I kept trying any other thread conditioner on the market that I could get my hands on and I didn’t love any of them. But me as an ultra impatient person I cannot deal with thread that tangles, I can’t do it. I’ll put down what I’m doing. I will abandon a project if my thread tangles. So I need a thread conditioner.
Carolina Moore:
So let’s back up a second. So first of all, I think the brand that you’re talking about that went under that was in a little blue box was Thread Heaven.
Paige:
Oh, I think so. [inaudible 00:10:15].
Carolina Moore:
It was a blue box with gold writing on it.
Paige:
Yes. Yeah, and it was kind of like a whimsical font, kind of like wizard.
Carolina Moore:
Yes. And for people who aren’t familiar with thread gloss or thread conditioner, what is it? What does it do? Why do we need it in our lives?
Paige:
Right. So the reason that I found it to be a product that I could absolutely not live without in my stitchy life is because it’s a thread conditioner that coats the thread that you’re working with to prevent tangles, fraying and brittleness. You could kind of think about it as a deep conditioner for your thread and embroidery floss.
Carolina Moore:
So kind of like conditioner makes our hair easier to comb or to brush.
Paige:
Absolutely.
Carolina Moore:
Thread conditioner makes the thread easier to pull through the fabric.
Paige:
Yes.
Carolina Moore:
Perfect. Okay. So the thread conditioner that you grew up with wasn’t around anymore. This is devastating. You started trying some other brands, didn’t find anything that you loved.
Paige:
Yeah, there’s so many great brands out there and just like with hair conditioner, folks have different preferences about what kind of consistency or ingredients that they want to do. So I just wasn’t finding anything for me. I wanted something made with coconut oil and bees wax, something all natural, something that smelt good but not in a overwhelming walking into Yankee Candle sort of way. I wanted something that was made on my side of the country and at the time I couldn’t find anything that I liked. So I had a pal that was a lip balm manufacturer and I just offhandedly mentioned that, “Hey, I’m trying to source stuff for this embroidery workshop and for my personal life and I’m really stumped on this problem.” She’s like, “Why don’t we just make some? Why don’t we figure it out?” So we work together on a formula and came up with Ponderosa thread gloss, and it was exactly what I imagined. It’s creamy yet a more hard texture than say the petroleum-based products that are on the market, which are fine if that’s what you’re into. But I was able to find bees wax locally, find organic fair trade coconut oil and create a consistency that I really liked. And so then we started out with three flagship scents. One was hippie blend which we still carry and it’s just frankincense. It smells like walking into a co-op in the Pacific Northwest. It’s amazing. Vacay blend, which is coconut. And then we had a no frills blend, which used bleach beeswax.
We don’t have that anymore, instead we have a natural blend which is just regular old bees wax and coconut oil. And smells like whatever flower the bees were working on when that wax was made. So we started out with those three and then I took them to the embroidery classes and I put them in kits. And people just kind freaked out in the best way possible of like, “Oh, I didn’t know I needed this. How can I get more and how can I get this for my friends?” I was like um… And there I was, a new mom, kind of broke in my early 20s kind of looking for something else in life, some sort of mission outside of my work in the environmental field. And I was like, oh, maybe this could be a thing. And it was almost like I didn’t have a choice in the matter that the people have spoken and they needed a thread conditioner that was made the way I make it. That’s all natural, creamy, scents aren’t totally in your face. They reflect nostalgia, they reflect amazing places in the Pacific Northwest especially.
And then it kind of blossomed from there. I just started making more and I took the production in-house and started making it for myself, my husband and I. And we’ve had various employees along the way now that we distribute to several different countries and over 50 different quilt shops and craft stores.
Carolina Moore:
That’s incredible.
Paige:
So yeah, I guess the rest is history.
Carolina Moore:
So thread gloss is a thing that for quilters who haven’t used it before, we don’t know. We didn’t know that we needed it until we knew that we needed it. And also it sounds like that’s the story of thread gloss in your business, is that you didn’t know how it was going to revolutionize your business until it showed up.
Paige:
Yeah, I didn’t realize that the major barrier that I had to finishing projects which was if my thread tangles I’m going to abandon this and not do it because this is supposed to be fun, I need to realize that so many people deal with that, whether it’s hand quilting, embroidery, book binding, beading, people use thread gloss for all sorts of stuff. I didn’t realize that dealing with pesky thread was such a barrier to having fun. And then being able to provide that for people I was like, “Hey, let’s make this fun again. Let’s take the hassle out of needle work so that you could just have a good time and maybe have some aromatherapy while you’re at it.” So it got popular.
Carolina Moore:
Yeah. Now you have more than just those original three scents now, right?
Paige:
Yeah, we have 15 right now plus custom blends that different stores have ordered for their in-house blend that they only carry. And next month we are coming out with a brand new one as well.
Carolina Moore:
So we’re recording this in August, this will come out the 19th of September. Will it be out already by then?
Paige:
Yes. Yes, it will. So do you want to hear about it?
Carolina Moore:
Yes, please.
Paige:
Okay. So the next blend is one I’ve been working on formulating for quite a while now, it’s called Y2K blend. And it is very cucumber melon forward that has a little bit of hint of jasmine and chamomile to balance it out as well. And I don’t know about you, but I was a cucumber melon girly in middle school. [inaudible 00:17:17] happening, the colorful IMAX were out, flip phones were still cool, Britney Spears was on the radio and everything I had was scented like cucumber melon. It really smells like that transition to me of going from watching Pokemon after school to getting really into MTV and learning how to use a hair straightener and learning about who you are in the world. So that’s what that scent means to me, and I hope that it resonates with a bunch of other Y2K middle schoolers like myself.
Carolina Moore:
That’s so funny. I can smell it. I’m a little bit older than you are, and I have the feeling that I’ve got listeners that are a little bit older than we are as well. But it’s so fun how scents are… We don’t think about how much sense are tied to memories and to feelings and emotions. When you’re talking about the scent of that time, that transition time, when I was a freshman in college I picked up the Bath and Body works they had a peach lotion. And I loved the smell of these peaches. And of course they discontinued it later. And so now whenever I find anything peach, I have to smell it and say, “Is this the same peach?” Because when I find something that’s that same peach and I can’t tell you what’s wrong about other peaches. I’ll be like, no, this is not that peach. But when I find that peach it’s like, oh, there’s that smell and it brings me right back to that time.
Paige:
Yeah, scent memory is so specific and so amazing. My gosh, I need to talk to a scientist or psychologist about this because I really believe that if you select a scent and not just for thread gloss and for crafting, but in your life that reminds you of a good time, you will have a good time. There’s something about it. And I believe that with thread gloss, and I really choose from my own experiences and I hope that people at least find them somewhat relatable or enjoy the scents. But because crafting, embroidery, quilting, all of this it’s so often passed down from generation to generation or between friends, it’s very community based, that I hope that memory gets attached to that too. Whether it’s you’re smelling this thread gloss and it brings you back to a memory that you really love of creating something or just any time in your life that means a lot to you.
Or the scent creates new memories, say you’re with your pals at a brewery stitching and then that scent that you’re using becomes the signifier for that memory. That’s part of why I do what I do and why I work so hard to curate scents that I don’t quite see elsewhere is because scent is important. Scent is identity, it’s memory. It becomes… I don’t know. I know it’s just a quilting notion but it becomes important.
Carolina Moore:
I love this extra layer on scent and it’s making me think about all the things. There are certain stores that will bake chocolate chip cookies because they want the store to smell like home. And that smell of coming into chocolate chip cookies for so many of us is a home or homey sense.
Paige:
Yeah.
Carolina Moore:
So some real estate agents will do that. I remember when we were selling our house years and years ago, our realtor she had a bread maker that she would lend us. But I had a bread maker and I didn’t need hers. But for clients that didn’t have one she would lend them a bread maker and she would get the boxed bread mix so that all of the person had to do was dump the bread mix in and add water. And they were supposed to start that a certain amount of time before the open house started so that it would go through its whole kneading cycle and then it would start baking as the open house was starting so that the house would smell fresh baked bread, because that’s another one of those scents of home and comfort. Even if you didn’t grow up in a house where your family baked bread for so many of us, that scent of homemade fresh baked bread it smells like home.
So you want in real estate for people to come into your home and go, oh, it feels like home because it smells so homey.
Paige:
Oh, I could picture myself here. Yeah, totally, scent is wildly important.
Carolina Moore:
Okay, so you have the scents, you’ve got a new one that’s just come out which I will definitely link to in the show notes and people can find that new scent. But thread gloss isn’t the only thing that you… It’s a big part of your business but it’s not the only part of your business, right?
Paige:
No.
Carolina Moore:
So what other things are you working on?
Paige:
Well, Ponderosa just got picked up by Checker Distributors, so we have been-
Carolina Moore:
Congratulations.
Paige:
Happy busy with… Thank you.
Carolina Moore:
So for people who don’t know what that means, so for those of us who make notions, we can sell them directly to quilt shops or it’s actually about four main distributors here in the US that you can sell your product to the distributor, and then the distributor sells to bunches and a bunches of quilt shops. So it makes it easier to get into more shops when you get picked up by a distributor. And Checker is one of the largest distributors. So getting picked up by Checker for a notion designer is a big deal, so congratulations.
Paige:
Thank you. And what I love most about it is it makes it easier for quilt shops to take a gamble in these uncertain times on a product they’ve never tried before. And then of course figure out whether or not it works for them, because when you shop through a distributor your minimum is typically lower and you could shop from many different brands to hit that minimum. Whereas when folks shop directly from me for wholesale, your entire minimum is just thread gloss. So it gives an opportunity to the quilt stores to try new things and that’s why I’m most stoked about Checker. But yeah, since we’ve gotten on board with them, it has been crazy busy. And we are also producing an exclusive blend of thread gloss for a company in Australia for a super secret project that I can’t go into more detail about, but stay tuned. I’ll announce that on Instagram. And doing custom blends for other stores. But other than that, the other main projects that I’ve been working on there’s two. I have been revamping my sown goods collection.
So if you guys know me or if you want to go take a look at my portfolio, at least that’s how I use Instagram these days as a portfolio of like here’s what I’m working on and these are the things that I like. This is what I find inspiration from. So if you go and you see, I’m really, really into improv landscape ish curves in quilting. So for a few years now I’ve been creating these quilted bags and selling them at maker’s markets, sometimes on my own website but mostly a wholesale to other boutiques across the country. And so that’s the major thing that I’m doing right now because we’re recording this in August, you’ll hear in September. Other small businesses will know it is now fully like Christmas crunch time, so lots of sewing curves lately. And I have been obsessed with the color blue, all shades of blue, blue everything. So a lot of blue fabric in my life right now. The other thing that I have been working on is applying for artists residencies and creating wall hangings, trying to… Well, let me add some contexts there.
I have focused so heavily on quilted bags, mini pouches, pencil pouches and some larger ones. There’s a couple of different sizes because for people that don’t quilt, it’s really inaccessible to buy quilted work because it is very labor-intensive. The supplies are expensive. If a quilt is priced how it should be, it’s hundreds or thousands of dollars. And that’s not something that everyday people can necessarily have in their home, but they can manage to have a quilted pouch. And quilting I think should belong to everyone and be accessible to everyone. So that’s why I started making quilted accessories because I was like, well, let’s have small bits of that coziness, that nostalgia, that craftsmanship of quilting that you could just carry around with you wherever you go because also you can’t carry around like a queen size quilt. You could, but a pencil pouch might be a little bit more socially acceptable. So I started doing that which I love, and I’m never going to stop doing it, I don’t think because it just brings me so much joy to create a variety of different little landscape pouches.
But I have been really craving a more artistic side, doing one-off wall hanging pizzas and trying to get those in the galleries. It’s something I did before in before times, so early 2020. And before that I had some gallery work and some wall hangings, and I have been brainstorming ways to get into that. And when I get a second here and there kind of experimenting with different colors, shapes, textures, trying to think about quilting in a less utilitarian sense of the craft because I’ve got notions which are supplies, consumables, they’re meant to be used. And then my line of some goods that is accessible relatively at a lower price on the end of consumer purchases in the art world. But I’m still finding that there’s this long history of textile art being kind of cast aside as women’s work or not real art or the argument between what is art and what is craft.
And I’m always drawn back to the idea of we need to change people’s mind about that. Art isn’t just the things you typically see in galleries, photography, painting, things like that. It could be quilts too. Why aren’t quilts in galleries as often? Why are we so siloed into just having-
Carolina Moore:
Quilt museums, yeah.
Paige:
Yeah, quilt museums or quilt shows and we’re only showing quilts to other quilters, which is fine and dandy and amazing. But I want to expand the reach of quilting because color and shape and texture it’s universal, and textiles are all around us and they mean the world to everyone. Everyone uses textiles. So I’ve been trying to kind of make smart pieces and we’ll see where that goes.
Carolina Moore:
Well, that sounds amazing and super fun as well. You mentioned something about looking at residencies. What does that look like?
Paige:
Well, I’m not sure yet. I kind of want to relocate and checking out different places through the form of say, going for a week or a month or longer to a different part of the country. And gaining inspiration from the surroundings there and learning about different communities might give some sort of indication of where to go next as an Anderson, where the Anderson’s going to go next, what are we going to do? We’ve lived in Washington our whole lives. We’ve lived in Olympia eight years, what’s the big next thing? And so I kind of want to travel by doing residencies, but right now that’s kind of like a let’s see kind of thing. I really want to apply to a few in the Southwest because I’m so drawn to the colors and textures and sense of the Southwest. And I went to New Mexico a couple of months ago and it’s all I can think about. It is my whole personality now.
Carolina Moore:
So the name is Ponderosa Creative and Ponderosa makes me think of Southwest, is that where that came from or where did the name Ponderosa come from?
Paige:
Kind of. So let me tell you the story. So I really started thinking about the art that I do and all of that seriously when I was in grad school. And I was working on my candidacy for my master’s degree, I was writing a case study on the species migration of Ponderosa pines. And how different agencies are sampling the stock of Ponderosa pines which means the seedlings, the pine cones from the Southwest and then translating those, transporting them, transplanting all the different ways you could think about it, into the Pacific Northwest and the inland Northwest because the variations of Ponderosa pine in the Southwest are more resistant to drought and fire which we are seeing a lot more of up here. So I wrote a big paper on that and it really struck me as a metaphor for who I was and what I was going through in my life of you could be the same thing but go somewhere else, do something else, be something else and there’s a place for you.
Just like what botanists are trying to do with Ponderosas and other climate resistant species of how could we use our resources to get by and be resilient. And in grad school I was really into… Still am, really into the concept of socio ecological resilience, which means in the face of climate change how could we make sure that we get through it? And as people in a community how do we become resilient? And for me, I just kept coming back to art. Art is how people are resilient. So I felt really inspired by this tree and I was just like, well, let me just borrow that for my name. And so to me Ponderosa really represents creativity and resilience and kind of just blooming where you’re planted.
Carolina Moore:
That’s awesome. So what do you have in the future? What are you looking towards next? We’re looking at residencies and doing more art like quilt projects. Any other products or tools or classes? I saw you have a fabric dyeing class on your site.
Paige:
I did. I actually just did that last Saturday, which was August 12th. I did a botanical Sano type botanical imprint course, and it was so much fun. I am feeling pretty open-ended with what the future holds, whether that’s getting more into teaching, doing patterns again, I’m not sure, expanding the lines of notion, creating more artwork. We live in this whole new era economically and as people coming out of the other side of the pandemic where we have to reevaluate everything, does this bring us joy? Does this bring us security? Does this bring joy to others? So I’m in that process of trying to figure out all this stuff brings me joy, but which one’s best? So that being said, I did recently introduce a couple of more notions into my shop that are made by other manufacturers. But trying to get Ponderosa to be like a one-stop shop in progress for needlework supplies, like I have some scissors, I have some thimbles, I have some other little tools and notions, measuring tapes, some stickers for some machine or for whatever, some seam rippers.
So I’ve started dipping my toes into more notions because I do have this other big, scary, exciting back burner dream of a decade from now having a brick and mortar quilt shop. So I’m like, well-
Carolina Moore:
Oh, that’s exciting.
Paige:
Why not start now and have a couple of fabric bundles, carry some cute scissors and see what the response is? And not just be a one trick pony with the thread gloss. While that is great, there’s so much more to the quilt averse.
Carolina Moore:
So where can people find you? You talked about your online shop a little bit. So where can people find your shop and where else can they find you online and on social media?
Paige:
So I am most active on social media on Instagram, and recently on Threads. It was really fun. It has a Tumblr vibe to it. My handle is Ponderosa creative on both. And if you want to try out some thread gloss or check out the other notions and quilt patterns that I have in my shop, you could find that @ponderosacreative.com. Or if you’re in the Etsy app, you could search Ponderosa Creative and find me there. And if you are a quilt shop, boutique, Advent calendar specialist, anyone that buys notions, you could find Ponderosa thread gloss on fair @ponderosacreative.fair.com is my direct link or you could always email me for it. Or you could go through Checker Distributors. You just search for Ponderosa thread gloss.
Carolina Moore:
Perfect. I’ll make sure that all those links are in the show notes as well, so people can easily just go to Ilovenotions.com and find this episode and then all the links will be there, including actually a transcript of the episodes. I make sure to transcribe all the episodes so that we have accessibility for people who audio either isn’t their thing or it can’t be their thing because they have challenges with audio. So we have it in both ways.
Paige:
I love that, yes.
Carolina Moore:
Yeah. One of my favorite things about notions is that it makes quilting and sewing more accessible for people, sample your thread gloss. And it takes that frustration of knot at threads away so that you’re able to truly enjoy what you do. And there’s so many ways that you can come at these creative hobbies in the way that works best for you, things that make it more adaptable or accessible. And so I want to do the same obviously with the podcast as well, and have it as accessible for folks as well.
Paige:
I love that so much.
Carolina Moore:
Thank you.
Paige:
I’m over the moon about being part of that. Thank you so much for having me,
Carolina Moore:
Paige, you’ve been such a great guest. Make sure y’all go to Ilovenotions.com to find all the links to follow Paige in all the places. And to be able to get your hands on some of her fabulous thread gloss and get those wonderful smells into your life. I did mention that this is the final episode for this season. However, I do have one bonus episode coming up, so make sure you stay tuned for that. And Paige, thanks so much for joining us.
Paige:
Thanks for having me.
Carolina Moore:
Friends, that’s our episode for today. I hope you loved it as much as I loved having this conversation. Remember that you can find all the details that we talked about in the show notes, and those are all @ilovenotions.com. And make sure to leave this podcast a review in your favorite podcasting app. Leaving it a review will help the podcast algorithm show this podcast to other people who love notions just as much as we do. Friends, that’s all I have for you today, but I will see you right here real soon. Bye for now.
